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标题: 发表一个pci版xfi少许利空的消息——全功能的pcie版xfi快上市了 [打印本页]
作者: pyncell    时间: 2007-9-11 09:06
标题: 发表一个pci版xfi少许利空的消息——全功能的pcie版xfi快上市了
:p 注意！是全功能版的，而不是阉版（听说淘宝上卖的是阉版，没有music creation模式）。如果那些不是阉版，请老板们赶紧回贴趁机宣传你们的商品。:p & l& |3 e. C; F/ p8 X9 }3 [  U
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原文9月6日首发：http://playreaction.com/?p=viewarticle&articleid=146a3089-0666-4621-9cae-14ae34251bb7; t- F& }) E' ~7 t

: x# ?. v7 E% [) }# l( c% q全文英文如下：
- ^& ]# U% L6 I0 o( UpR: Welcome to this playREACTION interview. Can you please introduce yourself and your position at CLE?
) i" K9 ?: a. JDO: Hi Christian, my name is Darragh O’Toole and I’m Senior Brand Manager for Audio with Creative Labs Europe based in our HQ here in Dublin, Ireland. " X+ R! Q& b3 D) L
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pR: Did this project start right after the launch of the First X-Fi soundcard back in October 05? Or rather as a response to Asus world’s first high-end PCI-Express soundcard? 1 b+ N7 x3 h7 B' ^
DO: We had always planned to port the range to PCI-E, but there were some initial design challenges involved which had to be overcome, given that the bus design was primarily oriented at high capacity data transfer so it was always “on the cards”. ! n, q. U5 D! g9 ]6 H% K
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pR: You didn’t go straight to a PCI-E interface with the first installment of the gaming and elite edition. Previous claims stated that the overhead of the PCIe was dire for audio packets. What has changed since then and why the move to the new interface now? + |" s" p6 M/ E! x) J
DO: Given that most motherboard vendors opted to retain PCI on most boards and as PCI-E slots primarily focused on support for graphics cards we had time to iron out any audio transfer issues before the switch became essential for some newer motherboards.
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" m( ?9 [( J8 s- X& Q3 cpR: What technical characteristic have been improved over the EMU20K1 APU? And how will the new one be labeled?
9 B8 O- s4 O, J( v! I3 qDO: The DSP features of the X-Fi APU will remain unchanged, it’s simply ported to the PCIe bus so it’s more of an interconnect change rather than a core technology change. The key is to provide the same great experience people enjoyed in XP over PCI in Vista over PCIe. The PCIe cards will be fully UAA compliant and feature 4 stereo outs in place of our traditional 8 channels from 3 jacks config. , V  `- H9 ?% i7 k

) n) Y% C+ }! ~1 h, rpR: What’s your thought about the effectiveness and need for EMI shields found on modern audio cards? Will X-Fi cards ever be issued with these protective piece?
( ]" S5 q6 i! I2 w7 Q9 YDO: When it comes to the crunch, circuit design is going to yield more effective benefit than a shield and this is borne out by the lack of EMI shielding on pro-audio cards like those from E-MU and many other DSP based cards costing several thousands of dollars.
% r4 d) t: h& h1 J4 [While I’m not ruling it out, before you implement it, it’s nice to know that they can be shown to be more than cosmetic. Plus, if your machine is pumping out sufficient interference to seriously affect your card, it’s time to think about changing your power supply! # ]/ y# V4 X4 M3 W1 E
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pR: There has been various procedures by X-Fi users where they modded output opamps for improved audio quality. Will there be any improved components on this card? (referring LM4562 etc) / ]6 M- E) x) z, M1 X
DO: We are continually reviewing the components used for the range and there is an obvious cost-benefit consideration to ensure the cards remain within the realm of affordability, but we are likely to ensure that our high end cards still stand head to head with the best of what’s on the market at launch.
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pR: The X-Ram support was only supported by Battlefield and Quake/Doom latest games as far as I know. What near future games will be take advantage of the onboard memory? Will it make its way to the new X-Fi series again?
' t4 L! T2 U+ NDO: Yes, as it’s automatically available for any OpenAL titles that choose to use it, we will continue to support X-Ram on the X-Fi 20K1 based range
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9 s# D& k$ `9 S$ C" Z/ Q5 Q# [9 bpR: What specifications can we expect and will the new series follow the same release procedure (Xtrememusic, Fatal1ty Elite Pro)?
  d- j9 o! i3 sDO: I can’t really comment on the full range as yet, but we will continue with the 4 discrete stereo outs + optical i/o layout + front panel internal connector for the PCIe versions.   u* U( _) k3 {8 D# l

( T; E  G: B( kpR: Speaking of different releases, should gamers take it for granted now that the card targeted at them will be a fatal1ty imprinted edition? + L4 ?5 D2 D! _% m( H: [
DO: Yes, we will continue with our Fatal1ty series for the pro-gamer, with the DSP and X-RAM getting the highest performance from your machine and yielding the best possible audio mixing and 3D spatialisation. It also features gold plating and expansion options. The Xtreme Gamer range however offers an excellent value full DSP option for those who don’t require the expansion and X-Ram and for those who are less frame rate obsessed and more casual gamers, the Xtreme Audio range, now also in notebook format will still give them a huge increase in game immersion over onboard audio.
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3 e; R' M3 J% g# LpR: Will there be an option to output HDMI content before it hits DACs? How does this whole HDMI and HDCP chronicle will effect PC gaming and Movies on the same machine?
! n1 k0 D8 m; H2 eDO: This is an area which is still pending a final industry standard for interconnecting your audio system to the HDMI out on your graphics card. We are working with the leading partners on different approaches, but there are some key issues that still need to be resolved on a hardware and OS level. As the standard progresses, audio data will most likely need to be sent encoded over the audio pins on the HDMI cable for decoding at your external decoder which will require fast processing to ensure no latency is experienced for movies and gaming. For a lot of gamers who use headphones, it’s not really much of an issue, more for those using surround sound systems.
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2 R1 t2 I# O1 ?2 k- QpR: Can you explain clearly what radical changes did you undergo with regards the previous question? Does Creative still have a direct path to the audio cards? And what about games that are built in DirectSound3D played on Vista? What audible difference does this bring into play now that they’re lacking EAX?
( |/ a+ o) r3 v( k) j6 |DO: We can still talk directly to the soundcard via OpenAL, so that means that games have a secure direct path to the card for full hardware acceleration and Creative Alchemy allows us to “transmute” any DX game to OpenAL.
% Y: u; R6 _9 m/ L/ W! KThe benefit is in the quality of the HRTFs and effects that are being processed in hardware, giving you much more positional clarity, more accurate environmental information and rich realistic effects. It really is night and day difference, just try playing Bioshock with onboard audio. - i6 S# N" V8 N! M: b. k1 }% ?

4 l5 F0 H* ?# [5 w8 P+ ~pR: Are there any new speaker sets planned for the near future for both Gigaworks and Inspire series? If so, what improvements will they boast?
9 R8 B" A# d: J: R$ hDO: Currently the Gigaworks Programer G500 and its wireless rears sister set the G550W remain our flagship gaming product. The Inspire range recently underwent a design change but still retained the tweeters that give that edge of clarity. * z# x. Q' S) w8 }

1 f8 [" o4 T& f. S6 q# G& ApR: Any concluding comments on the future of this sector and what to expect from Creative in the near future? " `9 v. ^) \. {' l9 w& L
DO: Creative will continue to cater for the add-in soundcard market as the modder community and pro-gamer will continue to opt for a modular system to ensure they can keep pace for as long as possible with their base system, a flexibility as yet not available in notebooks. Notebook sales however continue to grow like wildfire and our range accordingly has grown, with Xmod, Xmod Wireless, Xtreme Audio Notebook launching this year to bring the X-Fi experience to an even broader community. Our partnerships with motherboard vendors and 3rd party souncard manufacturers will also continue and we’re delighted to see Auzentech’s new board hit the market this year. Overall, expect to see more X-Fi in more places than ever before as the portfolio of products featuring this tech expands into headphones, speaker sets, MP3 docking systems and who knows where else!
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  k7 P3 |. U  O: b% jWe thank Darragh for his time and words.
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全文就硬件接口、信号io、pcie系列产品线等情况进行了介绍或暗示，表明pcie版在功能和规格上基本等同于pci版。同时不失时机的吹嘘了一下自己的openal。遗憾的是因为编辑不知是装胡涂还是真不知道微软的新的音频标准，所以该访谈只字未提对于dx10的xaudio音频标准的支持情况，，，，
作者: stevecsd    时间: 2007-9-11 09:07
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作者: pyncell    时间: 2007-9-11 09:12
(_(   都用pcie界面了还要用板载xram，耻辱
作者: 东邪    时间: 2007-9-11 10:54
想看图。 :a)
作者: 讨厌爱迪生    时间: 2007-9-11 11:32
阉割版的 PCI-E X-FI  比 A2 ZS 还不如 。。。。。。
作者: Fengsirgz    时间: 2007-9-11 15:38
xaudio的支持??
* U! J9 m) E# [. X# l& t$ b我看要等创新和MS那一方妥协吧( h- X) N  o* s! A5 i6 ~$ i
要兼容的话早就Vista的驱动全功能了
作者: xzyzy    时间: 2007-9-12 00:29
不看好，突然转向pci-e接口，很难保证不出问题。
2 [" L5 k! x% o  E' Y( Q我就不当小白了（反正母亲pci接口用的蛮好）
作者: _MyST_Spring    时间: 2007-9-12 10:22
传说不是pci-i接口的音质比较差么，这是各大声卡厂商都不敢贸然上pci-e的原因？
作者: 酷风    时间: 2007-9-12 12:23
原帖由 _MyST_Spring 于 2007-9-12 10:22 发表
# a" s5 C$ w- Y& D# I4 \$ R( L传说不是pci-i接口的音质比较差么，这是各大声卡厂商都不敢贸然上pci-e的原因？

! U7 d" D9 `+ j9 W. F, h3 m$ w据说创新的工程师这样说过，具体是不是也不清楚。  x. ^( z+ f2 D' j% S
各大厂商不上的原因，估计是因为现在这个市场还没有充分形成，利润还不够多
作者: pyncell    时间: 2007-9-13 17:19
原帖由 酷风 于 2007-9-12 12:23 发表
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& c* n& h2 V+ A; K! M8 g据说创新的工程师这样说过，具体是不是也不清楚。5 H$ j. j0 [' p7 U% [
各大厂商不上的原因，估计是因为现在这个市场还没有充分形成，利润还不够多
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: D& Q6 l7 f, ?' Y1 t! }基本上是这个原因。. W/ r- m& B! M" s
声卡不像显卡那么量大赚钱，开发费用能省就省点 。
作者: garfieldyao    时间: 2007-9-14 16:44
PCI-E X1接口基本上都在显卡插槽边上# s, l8 g& ^; U  {, }3 H
还有的夹在两个显卡之间
; g. I8 H/ K2 W6 y4 M用起来好不方便啊- m6 q6 {8 `  Y3 g) `8 B
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估计现在x1接口基本上都是摆设，所以主板厂商也就没想过实用问题吧...
作者: fengzhu    时间: 2007-9-14 19:26
E文不翻译一下吗?:blink:
作者: everyoung    时间: 2007-9-14 20:33
明年INTEL就要放弃PCI总线了，总归要上的
作者: kween_671    时间: 2007-9-14 23:36
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作者: xtal    时间: 2007-9-14 23:48
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作者: garfieldyao    时间: 2007-9-15 10:56
标题: 回复 #14 kween_671 的帖子
VIA基本上已经算是退出主板芯片组市场了吧# T/ I! k$ {4 v' z
除非你用VIA的cpu
作者: 飞翔的毛肚    时间: 2007-9-15 11:23
PCI-E接口的声卡还是算了吧，
作者: 酷风    时间: 2007-9-17 01:21
原帖由 xtal 于 2007-9-14 23:48 发表
. e+ h' ?8 [  T  ^9 W& b2 r中低端声卡用PCIE接口对音质是找死
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什么原因？高端的不受影响吗？
作者: pyncell    时间: 2007-9-17 14:59
原帖由 xtal 于 2007-9-14 23:48 发表 - m# O8 G% J8 L0 e8 Y
中低端声卡用PCIE接口对音质是找死
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这个太主观臆测了吧！w00t)  3 w1 Q' F% {& }5 X
现在新出的板子上的板载声卡都用pcie的耶！:p ' e$ K1 Z, X5 K9 r. S
音质就算不好，但和是否pcie口没关系吧？
作者: xtal    时间: 2007-9-17 22:02
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作者: clockrun    时间: 2007-9-17 22:20
能不能详细的说说为什么换成PCI-E就对音质有影响？
作者: garou    时间: 2007-9-17 22:49
PCI接口早晚要被淘汰，新技术才是王道。1 f: s2 H4 Q7 C, j" W$ j6 i3 r5 x" L
某些人就像当年死守ISA的AWE64一样..........
作者: xtal    时间: 2007-9-17 23:10
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作者: pyncell    时间: 2007-9-18 08:26
原帖由 xtal 于 2007-9-17 23:10 发表
: S% [, [# q. S+ Z" w! a% fISA 到PCI是全面的进步 PCIE对模拟音质来说是倒退
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w00t)  pcie标准的电磁噪音污染很严重，是这意思吗？
作者: xtal    时间: 2007-9-18 16:28
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作者: pyncell    时间: 2007-9-18 17:20
原帖由 xtal 于 2007-9-18 16:28 发表 6 ?; @9 r5 c6 }

" \0 y9 ~, x- OPCIE的问题不在这里，就接口本身的EMI EMC PCIE多半还好过PCI。
1 W) b9 K( H+ X* |4 {% x9 \) n5 J0 f- d但是PCIE有其他的麻烦，在中低档声卡上面几乎是无法解决的
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w00t)  其他麻烦能直接影响到模拟信号音质吗？
作者: xtal    时间: 2007-9-18 19:30
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作者: pyncell    时间: 2007-9-19 12:02
原帖由 xtal 于 2007-9-18 19:30 发表 $ r* A$ W. m7 Z

) k) }% D! ^# A# a7 J( A/ q& f那当然。:huh: # z4 w1 I. I% y# d
BTW 这个问题是一个很好的试金石，
: @& I1 ]- K: X. z5 ]% F4 d0 u这么多提示以后还理解不了的人，说明他没有什么资格讨论声卡上和模拟输出有关的硬件

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w00t)  什么是除了电磁污染以外的可以直接影响模拟输出的其他麻烦？ 供电不足？ 模拟电路设计有特殊需求？
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& p" e4 u2 {- B/ V  M[ 本帖最后由 pyncell 于 2007-9-19 12:05 编辑 ]
作者: xtal    时间: 2007-9-19 18:29
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作者: 5isunshine    时间: 2007-9-19 20:19
dell版的xfi 都有 音乐创作模式的。
作者: 酷风    时间: 2007-9-19 21:38
原帖由 xtal 于 2007-9-17 22:02 发表 4 q: ]& g+ d- {$ }  N2 S& s/ o3 Q6 Z
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对比PCIE和PCI的接口定义你就知道是怎么回事了2 w3 S9 q! H$ J: P
19楼，我已经说了是中低端声卡，板载有高端的？
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PCI的接口定义我看过，不过PCIE的还没有看过
作者: znai9    时间: 2007-9-19 22:19
pcie接口缺少某些芯片工作需要的电压
作者: pyncell    时间: 2007-9-20 11:30
原帖由 xtal 于 2007-9-19 18:29 发表 % b; E$ Q1 S, q9 a
提示已经都给了，看不出就没有办法了
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% r8 E0 M& g/ n# @9 G& z% Z6 Dw00t)  x妹好酷哦！
作者: 酷风    时间: 2007-9-20 19:32
原帖由 znai9 于 2007-9-19 22:19 发表
) _% }7 X" p3 L! k# q( }. Epcie接口缺少某些芯片工作需要的电压
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不会是没有正负12v吧？
作者: xtal    时间: 2007-9-20 20:18
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作者: 酷风    时间: 2007-9-21 17:02
原帖由 xtal 于 2007-9-20 20:18 发表
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, ?  A6 [3 |% t. C没有-12V
# ^2 h. i( \; U$ L- {% X高端声卡可以靠高质量开关电源产生高质量负电压
- O' z: g; {1 D3 ~3 n2 |中低端声卡就死定了。要么是只有单电源12V 要么是低质量开关电源强行生成负电压，结果就是EMI超烂，SNR完蛋
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:funk: :funk: :funk: " {8 ?& ]9 _% H9 [
这规定太恶心了……没有-12V的确很麻烦……说不好TDA1308要重新流行起来了
作者: sd-iori    时间: 2007-9-21 23:25
原帖由 xtal 于 2007-9-20 20:18 发表
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没有-12V
# k/ [- H' J6 x% P' ]) `( h高端声卡可以靠高质量开关电源产生高质量负电压
4 N$ [; M5 W, A中低端声卡就死定了。要么是只有单电源12V 要么是低质量开关电源强行生成负电压，结果就是EMI超烂，SNR完蛋

  x* G- y7 t, H  c& o0 K! ?. @- a:charles: 原来还有这样的玄机



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