POPPUR爱换

标题: All Nvidia G84 and G86s are bad （小道消息，仅供参考） [打印本页]

作者: lyo 时间: 2008-7-11 18:07
标题: All Nvidia G84 and G86s are bad （小道消息，仅供参考）
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/09/nvidia-g84-g86-bad

All Nvidia G84 and G86s are bad

Comment No word on MCPs yet

By Charlie Demerjian: Wednesday, 09 July 2008, 5:43 PM

THE BURNING QUESTION on everyone's mind is what Nvidia parts are failing in the field? No GT200 jokes here, NV personnel are still quite sensitive about that, but our moles have told us about the bum GPUs.
The short story is that all the G84 and G86 parts are bad. Period. No exceptions. All of them, mobile and desktop, use the exact same ASIC, so expect them to go south in inordinate numbers as well. There are caveats however, and we will detail those in a bit.
Both of these ASICs have a rather terminal problem with unnamed substrate or bumping material, and it is heat related. If you ask Nvidia officially, you will get no reason why this happened, and no list of parts affected, we tried. Unofficially, they will blame everyone under the sun, and trash their suppliers in very colourful language.
The press is totally stonewalled, but analysts are quite another story. If you call up with Wall Street credentials, they will tell you what is going on, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be entirely accurate. What analysts tell me they were officially told is that it is a specific batch of parts that only HP got.
The official story is that it was a batch of end-of-life parts that used a different bonding/substrate process for only that batch. Once again, the trusty INQUIRER bulls{victory:] hit detectors went off so loudly that the phone almost vibrated out of my hand. More than enough people tell us both the G84 and G86 use the same ASIC across the board, and no changes were made during their lives.
When the process engineers pinged by the INQ picked themselves off the floor from laughing, they politely said that there is about zero chance that NV would change the assembly process or material set for a batch, much less an EOL part.
On the less technical side, multiple analysts also told us that NV specifically told them that this problem is confined only to HP. I wonder why Dell is having failures in huge numbers for their XPS lines and replacing them with ATI parts? Why is Asus having similar problems? Go check the message boards, any notebooks that came with G84s and G86s have boards filled with dead machine problems. Most of these, especially on the NV forums are being quashed and removed by admins, so act quickly and take screenshots of your posts.
Basically, NV seems to have told each analyst a highly personalised version of the story, and stonewalls everyone else who asks. Why? The magnitude of the problem is huge. If Dell and HP hold their feet to the fire, anyone want to bet that $200 million won't cover it? This has all the hallmarks of things the SEC used to investigate in a time before government was purchasable.
The other problem is the long tail. Failures occur due to heat cycling, cold -> hot -> cold for the non-engineers out there. If you remember, we said all G84s and G86s are affected, and all are the same ASIC, so why aren't the desktop parts dying? They are, you are just low enough on the bell curve that you don't see it in number that set off alarm bells publicly yet.
Laptops get turned on and off many times in a day, and due to the power management, throttle down much more than desktops. This has them going through the heat cycle multiple times in a day, whereas desktops typically get turned on and off once a day, sometimes left on for weeks at a time. Failures like this are typically on a bell curve, so they start out slow, build up, then tail off.
Since laptops and desktops have a different "customer use patterns", they are at different points on the bell curve. Laptops have got to the, "we can't bury this anymore" point, desktops haven't, but they will - guaranteed. The biggest question is whether or not they will be under warranty at that point, not whether or not they are defective. They are.
If you look at the HP page, the prophylactic fix they offer is to more or less run the fan all the time. Once again, for the non-engineers out there, fan running eats a lot of power, so this destroys the battery life of notebooks. Basically, people bought a machine with a battery life of X, and now it is Y to prevent meltdown from a bum part. It doesn't fix anything, it just makes the failures take longer, hopefully past the warranty period, at a huge battery life cost. Fire up your class actions people, you got shafted.
Back to the engineering, we intoned that this was a cover-up of engineering failures by Nvidia. We also said that they probably knew what was happening. Think we were kidding? Read this, twice, linked again here for those that can't move their mouse to the left, it is that important.
If we knew a year and change ago that these exact parts had heat problems, think Nvidia did? Think the voltage difference between A02 and A03 is coincidence? This is a classic example of not meeting engineering goals and overclocking through brute force (voltage bump in engineering terms) to compensate.
HP and the others were blindsided by this, it happened far too late in the design cycle to compensate, and it looks to have been covered up hastily, badly, and eventually fatally. Blaming suppliers, OEMs and users is completely unfounded and says that NV is unwilling to properly address this issue, only hide from it. NV knew, they made silicon changes to fix another problem that directly lead to this problem.
Nvidia is covering this up, hard. All the usual sources are keeping mum on the topic with only a few daring to speak out. Given the sheer magnitude of this, their marketshare for notebooks was huge in the period, this could very well suck up most of their remaining cash. Don't underestimate how bad this is going to be for NV, we highly doubt $200 million will even begin to cover it.

[ 本帖最后由 lyo 于 2008-8-1 16:56 编辑 ]

作者: lyo 时间: 2008-7-11 18:08
http://forum.pcdvd.com.tw/showthread.php?t=804467

nVidia 大利空 -- 全部的 G84 / G86 都有問題？
nVidia 最近是怎麼了 ?
感覺上怎麼一些不利因素加起來一起跳出來了 ?
是因為老闆沒有安太歲之類的嗎 ?

全部的 G84 / G86 都有問題？

由 Andy Yang 於 Jul 11th 2008 @ 1:30AM 發表
Nvidia 上一代筆電 GPU 出問題，已經對股價造成了極大的影響，但一個多禮拜過去了，對一般人而言最重要的問題還是沒有答案：到底出問題的是哪些 GPU 啊？據 The Inquirer 躲在 Nvidia 的內線的消息，是所有的 G84 和 G86 晶片，桌上型、筆電型都算，句點。這絕對是 Nvidia 空前絕後的大危機。

據 The Inquirer 挖出來的情報，出狀況的原因，是 G84 和 G86 共用的 ASIC 使用的黏著材料（之類的）在熱膨脹系數上和其他組件不相同，導致每次的收縮膨脹都會讓鍵結鬆脫一點，長久下來當然晶片就掛了。經常性的加溫減溫會讓問題更加快速的顯現出來，這大概也是為什麼 Nvidia 先前只說筆電的原因 -- 筆電為了省電，經常會調控 CPU 和 GPU 的出力，因此溫度變化會遠比開了就一直熱著的桌上型 GPU 要劇烈。目前的解決方法（在 BIOS 裡強制開啟風扇）根本只是降低溫度的變化率，以求能延長這兩顆晶片的壽命到超過保固而已。這方法不僅治標不治本，而且對電池耐力有很大的影響。對買了相關產品的使用者來說是相當不負責的態度。

The Inquirer 這篇報導有點聳動，但 Nvidia 目前處理整件事情的態度，卻讓人不得不覺得這種說法有一定的可信度。我們到現在還在猜測出問題的是哪一批產品本身就是個問題：Nvidia 什麼都不說明，不說明是什麼產品出問題，不說明是為什麼出問題，不說明影響範圍有多大。為什麼不說？是一旦說了 Nvidia 就完了嗎？我們目前唯一知道的，就是 Nvidia 預留了兩億美元來擦屁股，但如果真的所有的 G84/G86 晶片都有問題，那我們現在看到的恐怕只是冰山的一角而已，隨著時間的經過，出問題的筆電只怕會愈來愈多，更何況還有桌上型的顯示卡呢？

兩億，夠嗎？

G84 系列
8600GS
8600GT
8600GTS
8600M GS
8600M GT
8700MGT
G86 系列
8300GS
8400GS
8400M G
8400M GS
8400M GT
8500GT

作者: fevaoctwh 时间: 2008-7-11 18:09
提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: msmme 时间: 2008-7-11 18:12
84，86在便携机上的使用率蛮高，NV这次重祸难逃了。。。。。。

作者: 北方睡神 时间: 2008-7-11 18:12
提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: jackyking 时间: 2008-7-11 18:16
3年质保的aic会不会哭死...

作者: arashi 时间: 2008-7-11 18:23
两亿美擦屁金……好像挺大条

作者: gz_easy 时间: 2008-7-11 18:24
老豆的机子上正是G84 -___-!!

作者: fevaoctwh 时间: 2008-7-11 18:26
提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: ArseneKarl 时间: 2008-7-11 18:38
INQ 这个消息如果是真的，那事情就可以非常大条了～～～

联系到最近 DMC4 的一些谣言，看来在 G84s G86s 的本本上玩这个游戏还真是不安全啊

作者: ArseneKarl 时间: 2008-7-11 18:44

原帖由 lunew 于 2008-7-11 18:39 发表
g82和g84对应那些型号?

所有的8700 8600 8500 8400M GS以上系列～～～囧rz

[ 本帖最后由 ArseneKarl 于 2008-7-11 18:49 编辑 ]

作者: feel囝 时间: 2008-7-11 19:17
全部的G84和G86都有问题？那问题大了，要知道这两个是多大的装机量.......自从上年暑假开始直到今年3月，帮人差不多过手了7块G84........

作者: feel囝 时间: 2008-7-11 19:25
根本不是封装的问题

作者: kyo1165 时间: 2008-7-11 19:51
靠，我还帮同学买了部84GS独显的手提:wacko:

作者: whateveru 时间: 2008-7-11 19:57
SYSTEM SHOCK!{ninja:]

作者: roger243 时间: 2008-7-11 20:13
以后偶喝完茶回来也搞个茶楼消息~~{lol:]

作者: eoc 时间: 2008-7-11 20:37
提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: gzhyk 时间: 2008-7-11 20:44
提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: xreal 时间: 2008-7-11 20:51
{shocked:] 莫非是tsmc故意坑nv{lol:]

作者: SnowRealm 时间: 2008-7-11 20:57
史上最贵手纸:sweatingbullets: 双A如果想用，恐怕都用不起

作者: ArseneKarl 时间: 2008-7-11 21:05

原帖由 SnowRealm 于 2008-7-11 20:57 发表
史上最贵手纸:sweatingbullets: 双A如果想用，恐怕都用不起

94年 Intel Pentium 的浮点缺陷，手纸面值 4.75 亿美元，nV仍需努力——当然如果真的 G84 G86 事件闹大，创纪录的明天正在等待着黄总～～～

Edit: nV创纪录希望不大了，刚想起来偶们敬爱的大门同学用11.5亿美元擦了三红的Butt

[ 本帖最后由 ArseneKarl 于 2008-7-11 21:09 编辑 ]

作者: Al@n 时间: 2008-7-11 21:05
顶肺，刚买了8400GS的笔记本，如果真是坏了就太阳了~~！[wacko>

作者: fevaoctwh 时间: 2008-7-11 21:07
提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: xreal 时间: 2008-7-11 22:13
{shocked:] 老黄面临危机阿。。。{closedeyes:] 卖身intel算了{lol:]

作者: fenchang 时间: 2008-7-12 00:12
提示: 作者被禁止或删除内容自动屏蔽

作者: msmme 时间: 2008-7-12 00:16
国外用户比较在乎质量的原因吧。。。。。。NV麻烦大了。。。。。。

至于国内用户碰上毛病忍受力不错，商家也能忽悠推托，大事化小是常情

作者: ArrrX 时间: 2008-7-12 00:18
手头台机是用的G86，帮人配过G84的………………………………

作者: katerren 时间: 2008-7-12 13:00
还有NVS135m和NVS140M

也就是84 86核心的！

作者: 落花如梦 时间: 2008-7-12 13:17
移动平台一直喜欢A卡,颜色比较好....所以一直忍着没买N卡的笔记本...现在想来真是逃过一劫啊...等移动版3650了....

作者: kingofmx200 时间: 2008-7-12 14:12

原帖由 不老牛奶 于 2008-7-12 13:18 发表
不管是真是假,NV一片大好的移动显示芯片市场以后肯定一蹶不振.

nvidia官方都确认了，但是这里不让发这个消息，发的帖子已经被删除了，哈哈哈~~~

作者: xreal 时间: 2008-7-12 15:15
{shocked:] 正好升级到g9x系列

作者: madcat2100 时间: 2008-7-12 15:21

原帖由 不老牛奶 于 2008-7-12 13:18 发表
不管是真是假,NV一片大好的移动显示芯片市场以后肯定一蹶不振.

我是来mark墓碑的

作者: chccom 时间: 2008-7-12 15:44
擦的好，说不定商家更喜欢用，世事无绝对么

欢迎光临 POPPUR爱换 (https://we.poppur.com/)