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刺客信条技术首领:DX10.1效果错误需返工 +1.02截图 驳1.02造成阴影错误 +10.1 bug图

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1#
发表于 2008-5-11 19:41 | 只看该作者 回帖奖励 |倒序浏览 |阅读模式
Ubisoft comments on Assassin's Creed DX10.1 controversy - UPDATED

We have been following a brewing controversy over the PC version of Assassin's Creed and its support for AMD Radeon graphics cards with DirectX 10.1 for some time now. The folks at Rage3D first broke this story by noting some major performance gains in the game on a Radeon HD 3870 X2 with antialiasing enabled after Vista Service Pack 1 is installed—gains of up to 20%. Vista SP1, of course, adds support for DirectX version 10.1, among other things. Rage3D's Alex Voicu also demonstrated some instances of higher quality antialiasing—some edges were touched that otherwise would not be—with DX10.1. Currently, only Radeon HD 3000-series GPUs are DX10.1-capable, and given AMD's struggles of late, the positive news about DX10.1 support in a major game seemed like a much-needed ray of hope for the company and for Radeon owners.


After that article, things began to snowball, first with confirmation that Assassin's Creed did indeed ship with DX10.1 support, and then with Ubisoft's announcement about a forthcoming patch for the game. The announcement included a rather cryptic explanation of why the DX10.1 code improved performance, but strangely, it also said Ubisoft would be stripping out DX10.1 in the upcoming patch.

In addition to addressing reported glitches, the patch will remove support for DX10.1, since we need to rework its implementation. The performance gains seen by players who are currently playing Assassin’s Creed with a DX10.1 graphics card are in large part due to the fact that our implementation removes a render pass during post-effect which is costly.
This statement raised a whole new set of questions: What exactly is the "costly" render pass that's being removed in DX10.1? Does it impact image quality or just improve performance? And what are Ubisoft's motives for removing the DX10.1 code path?

Rage3D posted a follow-up article noting some very slight image quality anomalies with DX10.1, but nothing major. Other sites, including PC Games Hardware in Germany and the HardOCP, reproduced Rage3D's findings about performance increases and minor image quality changes in DX10.1.

Perhaps the DirectX 10.1 code path in Assassin's Creed needed some work, as Ubisoft claimed, but why remove DX10.1 support rather than fix it?  The rumor mill creaked to life, with folks insinuating Ubisoft decided to nix DX10.1 support in response to pressure from Nvidia after the GPU maker sponsored Assassin's Creed via its The Way It's Meant To Be Played program.  Our conversations with multiple credible sources in the industry gave some credence to this scenario, suggesting the marketing partnership with Nvidia may have been a disincentive for Ubisoft to complete its DirectX 10.1 development efforts.

Our next step was to ask Ubisoft some specific questions about DX10.1 support in Assassin's Creed, in order to better understand what's happening.  Fortunately, Charles Beauchemin, the tech lead for the Assassin's Creed development team, was kind enough to answer our questions.  Those questions, and his answers, follow.
TR: First, what is the nature of the "costly" "post-effect" removed in Assassin's Creed's DX10.1 implementation?  Is it related to antialiasing?  Tone mapping?
Beauchemin: The post-effects are used to generate a special look to the game. This means some color correction, glow, and other visual effects that give the unique graphical ambiance to the game. They are also used for game play, like character selection, eagle-eye vision coloring, etc.

TR: Does the removal of this "render pass during post-effect" in the DX10.1 have an impact on image quality in the game?   

Beauchemin: With DirectX 10.1, we are able to re-use an existing buffer to render the post-effects instead of having to render it again with different attributes. However, with the implementation of the retail version, we found a problem that caused the post-effects to fail to render properly.

TR: Is this "render pass during post-effect" somehow made unnecessary by DirectX 10.1?

Beauchemin: The DirectX 10.1 API enables us to re-use one of our depth buffers without having to render it twice, once with AA and once without.

TR: What other image quality and/or performance enchancements does the DX10.1 code path in the game offer?

Beauchemin: There is no visual difference for the gamer. Only the performance is affected.

TR: What specific factors led to DX10.1 support's removal in patch 1?

Beauchemin: Our DX10.1 implementation was not properly done and we didn't want the users with Vista SP1 and DX10.1-enabled cards to have a bad gaming experience.

TR: Finally, what is the future of DX10.1 support in Assassin's Creed?  Will it be restored in a future patch for the game?
Beauchemin: We are currently investigating this situation.
So we have confirmation that the performance gains on Radeons in DirectX 10.1 are indeed legitimate.  The removal of the rendering pass is made possible by DX10.1's antialiasing improvements and should not affect image quality.  Ubisoft claims it's pulling DX10.1 support in the patch because of a bug, but is non-commital on whether DX10.1 capability will be restored in a future patch for the game.

The big question now is what happens next.  It's not hard to surmise that AMD's developer relations team stands ready to assist Ubisoft with fixing Assassin's Creed's DX10.1 code path as quickly as possible, and that doing so ought to be relatively straightforward, since the game's developers have said DX10.1 simply allows them to reuse a depth buffer without re-rendering it.

One would hope that all parties involved, including Ubisoft and Nvidia, would encourage the Assassin's Creed development team to complete its DX10.1 development work in a timely fashion—not to abandon it or to delay its completion until Nvidia also has a DX10.1-capable GPU on the market.

After all, Nvidia recently signed on to the PC Gaming Alliance, whose charter involves pushing common standards like DX10.1 and increasing "the number of PCs that can run games really well."  Assassin's Creed is nothing if not a perfect candidate for assistance on this front: a high-profile console port that's gaining a reputation for steep hardware requirements and iffy performance on the PC.  How can such an alliance succeed if one of its members is working at cross-purposes with it in a case like this one?  And what would the owner of an nForce-based system with a Radeon graphics card think upon learning that Nvidia's marketing dollars had served to weaken his gaming experience?

We'll be watching to see what happens next.  For our part, the outcome will affect whether and how we use Assassin's Creed and other Ubisoft and Nvidia "TWIMTBP" titles in our future GPU evaluations.

Update 5/9/08: Since publishing this story, we've spoken further with both Nvidia and Ubisoft about some of the issues involved. Nvidia spokesman Ken Brown told us unequivocally that "no money changed hands" as a result of Ubisoft joining Nvidia's "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" program, because that program is entirely a co-marketing arrangement. As part of this program, Nvidia may promote Assassin's Creed for Ubisoft in various ways (including magazine advertising) and may offer engineering resources and development assistance. But, Brown said, the value for Ubisoft comes solely from such activities.

Brown further emphasized that Nvidia's "TWIMTBP" program has done many good things for PC gaming, helping developers improve image quality, compatibility, performance, and visibility for their games—an assertion that's tough to dispute, we must admit.
Brown also said Nvidia exerted no influence whatsoever on Ubisoft or the development team with regard to the DirectX 10.1 code path.

Ubisoft spokesman Michael Beadle confirmed to us that Ubisoft's participation in TWIMTBP was strictly a co-marketing deal, and that Nvidia did not pay Ubisoft any money as a result of the deal.  He seconded Brown's statement that Nvidia did not influence the decision to remove DirectX 10.1 support from the first patch for Assassin's Creed. Beadle said the decision was made strictly by the game's development team.

Still up in the air is the question of whether Ubisoft will restore DX10.1 support to Assassin's Creed in a future patch. Based on what we've heard so far, I'd say that's not likely to happen. Ubisoft maintains no final decision has been made. Beadle made the further point that users of DirectX 10.1 graphics cards may simply want to avoid applying the patch to the game, if they're not encountering any problems with it.


Assassins Creed 1.02 DX10
 
2#
发表于 2008-5-11 19:43 | 只看该作者
刺客信条目前的DX10.1渲染效果不正确 因此需要拿掉回炉翻工
主要是考虑到众N卡持有者不好玩吧
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3#
 楼主| 发表于 2008-5-11 19:44 | 只看该作者
原帖由 awoo 于 2008-5-11 19:43 发表
刺客信条目前的DX10.1渲染效果不正确 因此需要拿掉回炉翻工
主要是考虑到众N卡持有者不好玩吧


请看UBI的说明:

TR: Does the removal of this "render pass during post-effect" in the DX10.1 have an impact on image quality in the game?   

Beauchemin: With DirectX 10.1, we are able to re-use an existing buffer to render the post-effects instead of having to render it again with different attributes. However, with the implementation of the retail version, we found a problem that caused the post-effects to fail to render properly.

Beauchemin是tech lead for the Assassin's Creed development team。
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4#
发表于 2008-5-11 19:48 | 只看该作者
加红了,呵呵。。
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5#
 楼主| 发表于 2008-5-11 19:50 | 只看该作者
其实我在原来发表的时候已经加红了,但是从你的回复来看应该是没有仔细看过文字而只是从其他地方看到的旧闻来说的,所以就单独列举出来给你。
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westlee 该用户已被删除
6#
发表于 2008-5-11 22:09 | 只看该作者
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7#
发表于 2008-5-11 22:45 | 只看该作者
google翻譯,原文如下:
刺客信条开发技术首领:刺客信条目前dx10.1渲染效果错误需拿掉回炉翻工
Ubisoft的评论对刺客的信条dx10.1争议-更新

我们一直在1以下酿造的争议PC版的刺客的信条和其支持AMD的Radeon显卡的DirectX 10.1一段时间,现在。乡亲在rage3d首次打破了这个故事,注意到一些重大的性能提升在游戏中对一,房屋署的Radeon 3870 x2与抗锯齿启用后, Vista的Service Pack 1的安装-收益高达20 % 。 Vista的SP1中,当然,增加支持的DirectX版本1月10日,除其他事项。 rage3d的徐家voicu也表明了一些实例,更高质量的抗锯齿的一些优势,被感动,否则将不会-与dx10.1 。目前,只有房屋署的Radeon 3000系列GPU是dx10.1能力,并鉴于AMD的斗争中后期,正面的消息约dx10.1支持在一个主要的游戏好像极为需要的一线希望,该公司和的 Radeon业主。


之后,文章,事情开始越滚越大,首先确认刺客的信条,的确船舶与dx10.1支持,然后与 Ubisoft的宣布关于即将举行的修补程序的游戏。宣布包括一个相当潜解释为什么dx10.1代码表现有所改善,但奇怪的是,它也表示,育碧将剔除 dx10.1在即将到来的修补程序。

    在除了处理报告故障,该修补程序将删除支持dx10.1 ,因为我们需要返工其执行。表现收益看到球员谁是目前播放的刺客的信条与dx10.1图形卡是在大,部分原因是事实,即我们执行删除,使通过在后的效果是费用昂贵。

这份声明提出了整个一套新的问题:究竟是什么“昂贵” ,使传递的被拆除, dx10.1 ?是否影响图像质量,或只是提高性能呢?什么是Ubisoft的动机,消除dx10.1的代码路径呢?

rage3d发布了后续的文章注意到一些很轻微的图像质量异常与dx10.1 ,但没有重大。其他网站,包括电脑游戏的硬件,在德国和hardocp ,转载rage3d的调查结果约性能的提升,而且轻微的图像质量的变化, dx10.1 。

也许的DirectX 10.1的代码路径,在刺客的信条所需要的一些工作,作为育碧声称,但为什么删除dx10.1支持,而不是修复?传闻轧机creaked生命,与乡亲暗示育碧决定nix中dx10.1支持的压力作出反应之后, NVIDIA的GPU的制造商赞助的刺客的信条通过其方式的意思是将要发挥的计划。我们的交谈多个可靠消息来源在业界提出了一些轻信这种情况下,建议营销伙伴关系,与NVIDIA可能已阻碍了育碧完成的DirectX 10.1的发展努力。

我们的下一步是要求Ubisoft的一些具体问题约dx10.1支持在刺客的信条,以便更好地了解了什么事。所幸的是,查尔斯beauchemin ,科技带头为刺客的信条开发团队,是一种足以回答我们的问题。这些问题,和他的答案,请按照下列。

    罗西斯:第一,是什么性质的“昂贵” , “后效应” ,取消了刺客的信条的dx10.1实施?是它相关的抗锯齿?语气映射?
     beauchemin :邮政效果是用来产生一个特别期待的游戏。这意味着一些颜色校正,辉光,和其他视觉效果,让独特的图形化的氛围,以游戏。他们也被用来玩游戏一样,特征选择,鹰眼视觉色彩,等等。

    罗西斯:是否取消,这“使通过在后效应” ,在dx10.1有一定的影响对图像质量在游戏中呢?

     beauchemin :与DirectX的10.1 ,我们可以重新使用现有的缓冲,使后的效果,而不使之再次与不同的属性。然而,随着实施的零售版本,我们发现一个问题所造成的后效应未能提供适当的。

    罗西斯:这是“使通过在后效应”在某种程度上作出不必要的由DirectX的10.1 ?

     beauchemin : DirectX的1月10日的空气污染指数,使我们能够重新使用我们的一个深度缓冲器而不使其两次,一次是与机管局及一旦没有。

    罗西斯:什么其他的图像质量和/或性能enchancements是否dx10.1代码路径在游戏中提供呢?

     beauchemin :有没有视觉的差异,为游戏玩家。只有表现受到影响。

    罗西斯:有什么具体的因素,导致dx10.1支持的搬迁,在修补程序1 ?

     beauchemin :我们dx10.1实施未有妥善做,我们不希望用户与Vista的SP1和dx10.1启用卡有一个坏的游戏体验。

    罗西斯:最后,什么是未来的dx10.1支持在刺客的信条?将它恢复,在未来的修补程序,为游戏呢?
     beauchemin :我们目前正在调查这种情况。

因此,我们必须确认该表现的收益就radeons在DirectX一十点一顷事实上,合法的。取消渲染通过是可能dx10.1奇摩抗锯齿的改善和应不会影响图像质量。育碧声称它的拉动dx10.1支持,在修补程序,因为一个错误,但非commital就是否dx10.1能力将被恢复,在未来的修补程序的游戏。

大现在的问题是,接下来该怎么做。它的,并不难推测AMD的开发者关系团队随时准备协助育碧与固定刺客的信条的dx10.1的代码路径,尽快,这样做应该是比较简单,因为游戏的开发商说, dx10.1只是允许他们重用,深度缓冲,没有重新绘制。

一会,希望所有有关各方,包括育碧和NVIDIA ,将鼓励刺客的信条开发团队,以完成其dx10.1发展工作的及时未放弃或延迟,直至其完成的NVIDIA也有dx10.1 -有能力的GPU在市场上。

毕竟, NVIDIA公司最近签署了关于向PC游戏联盟的宪章涉及推动共同标准一样, dx10.1和增加“个人电脑数量可以运行的游戏真的好” 。刺客的信条是什么,如果不是一个完美的候选人为援助在这方面:一个高姿态控制台端口的获得了声誉,陡峭的硬件要求和iffy表现在PC上。又怎能这样一个联盟的成功,如果其成员之一,是工作在两岸关系的目的,与它在一宗案件就像这一次呢?什么会的业主一个nforce为基础的体系,具有的Radeon图形卡认为,当得知NVIDIA的营销美元已送达,以削弱他的游戏体验呢?

我们将拭目以待,看看接下来该怎么做。为我们的一部分,结果会影响是否和我们如何使用刺客的信条和其他育碧和NVIDIA “ twimtbp ”的标题在我们未来的GPU的评价。

更新5/9/08 :自出版这个故事,我们已经发言,进一步与nVIDIA和育碧的一些所涉及的问题。 NVIDIA的发言人肯布朗告诉我们,明确表示“没有钱易手, ”由于育碧加入NVIDIA的“这样的意思,应发挥”计划,因为这计划完全是一种合作的营销安排。作为这项工作的一部分计划, NVIDIA公司可能促进了刺客的信条,为育碧以各种方式(包括杂志广告)和可提供的工程资源和发展援助。但是,布朗说,价值为育碧来单从这类活动。

布朗进一步强调指出, NVIDIA的“ twimtbp ”计划做了很多好事, PC游戏,帮助发展商改善图像质量,兼容性,性能和能见度为他们的游戏-一断言的强硬争端,我们必须承认。
布朗还表示, NVIDIA公司施加任何影响,对育碧或开发团队方面的DirectX 10.1的代码路径。

育碧发言人迈克尔德尔向我们证实说, Ubisoft的参与在twimtbp是严格的联合营销处理,并且NVIDIA公司没有支付任何金钱游戏,由于交易。他借调布朗的声明,即NVIDIA的不影响决定删除DirectX 10.1的支持,从第一修补程序刺客的信条。比德尔说,这一决定是严格按照游戏的开发团队。

还是在空气中的问题是是否育碧将恢复dx10.1支持刺客的信条,在未来的修补程序。基础上,我们已经听到直至目前为止,我想要说的不太可能发生。育碧保持没有最后决定,已经取得了。德尔作出进一步指出,用户的DirectX 10.1绘图卡的可能只是要避免应用的修补程序的游戏,如果他们没有遇到任何问题。
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8#
发表于 2008-5-11 22:52 | 只看该作者
大概意思懂了   :(
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westlee 该用户已被删除
9#
发表于 2008-5-11 23:30 | 只看该作者
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10#
 楼主| 发表于 2008-5-12 08:49 | 只看该作者
Assassins Creed DX10

第二张是经常会出现的,这张的效果比较像是不正确的post-processing导致的,不清楚第三张的问题,按照HardOCP的说法第三张被称作wash white/over bright。
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11#
 楼主| 发表于 2008-5-12 09:48 | 只看该作者
原帖由 看看看看 于 2008-5-12 09:42 发表
我怎么没遇到,cho能解释一下,为啥DX9画质都比DX10强,如果DX10画质正确,岂不是DX9是不正确?


说明你观察不仔细或者是只提供over bright的。:p
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12#
发表于 2008-5-12 10:17 | 只看该作者
官方都说了什么是正确什么是错误,还有人要继续争,难道你对刺客信条所要表达出什么样的画面的了解超过开发人员?

支持楼上自己去开发游戏 :p
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13#
发表于 2008-5-12 10:21 | 只看该作者
画面那环境是白天的什么时候?

如果室外光线很强,室内光线又不亮。那么A卡是正确的。不信,拿个数码相机在室内拍下就知道了。

[ 本帖最后由 katerren 于 2008-5-12 10:22 编辑 ]
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14#
 楼主| 发表于 2008-5-12 10:32 | 只看该作者
原帖由 看看看看 于 2008-5-12 10:14 发表
不可能[sleep>

事实上的确是你观察不仔细,不能充分全面反映3870在这个游戏中的表现。
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头像被屏蔽
15#
发表于 2008-5-12 10:41 | 只看该作者
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16#
 楼主| 发表于 2008-5-12 11:14 | 只看该作者
HardOCP是怎么说的呢?请看原文:




This last comparison screenshot clearly shows the difference in contrast produced by these video cards in Assassin's Creed. On the left side, shown on AMD hardware, the lighting is so bright and overexposed that it begins to looks seriously washed out. The right side, shown on an NVIDIA video card, is much more reasonably lit in our opinion.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.h ... CxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

:p

我所了解的是,目前声称DX10渲染不正确的,应该是Rage3D的Assassin's Creed DX10.1 - Addendum:

http://www.rage3d.com/articles/a ... endum/index.php?p=3

p2mm不是张冠李戴了吧。:)

但是为什么p2mm没说他说的那段话是出自rage3d呢?请看Rage3d原文中的另一段内容:

http://www.rage3d.com/articles/assassinscreed-addendum/index.php?p=2

Solomon's Tomb Comparison

Temple - DX10 1920x1200 - 2.9MB

Temple - DX10.1 1920x1200 - 2.8MB

Temple - MS Pix 1920x1200 - 2.2MB

This is where things get tricky, as alongside the usual effect of improved AA quality, we also get two other differences:
First, the 10.1 shot lacks the pillar of rising dust that's present with the earlier API. This is tied to having AA enabled, as with it disabled the dust renders just OK. Chances are that this is a driver bug, and we've already asked ATi about it-as soon as we get a reply you'll be the first to know. On the other hand, one of our (and probably everyone's) favorite developers, Emil Persson aka Humus, made a guess as to what might be happening that seems to align fairly well with what we're seeing:
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17#
发表于 2008-5-12 11:18 | 只看该作者
等他渲染正确了再说
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18#
发表于 2008-5-12 11:37 | 只看该作者
我对UBI出的各种游戏狂吃资源感到反感.而且刺客是续HL2后又一个玩的我眼疼恶心的怪游戏.也许是它里头那种恍惚式的效果太多,在室外时光照的感觉也很怪异.光说DX10.1的不是似乎不妥,这游戏从根本上也许就有问题
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19#
发表于 2008-5-12 12:14 | 只看该作者
等补丁出了看效果,其实论坛需要各种不同的声音,支持看看马甲一下。
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ssnzh 该用户已被删除
20#
发表于 2008-5-12 12:37 | 只看该作者
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
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